Since the pandemic, we’ve heard the same argument over and over again. Which one is better: working from home or going into the office? On today’s episode of The Frame of Mind Coaching™ Podcast, we have a special guest to discuss exactly that. Ann Gomez, Founder of Clear Concept Inc. and author of Workday Warrior, shares the benefits of each scenario, as well as how to build a routine, be more productive, and concentrate on core priorities.
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[00:00:05] Kim Ades:
Hello, hello. My name is Kim Ades, I'm the President and Founder of Frame of Mind Coaching™ and the Co-founder of The Journal That Talks Back™, and today you have just joined The Frame of Mind Coaching™ Podcast.
Today my co-host, Ferne, is not with me, but I do have an extra special guest. She's a friend, she's an author, she's an entrepreneur, she's extremely driven and very organized.
[00:00:29] Ann Gomez:
[00:00:30] Kim Ades:
Her name is Ann Gomez, she is the Founder of Clear Concepts Inc. Did I say it right? Clear concept.
[00:00:37] Ann Gomez:
Yeah. Clear Concept, yep.
[00:00:38] Kim Ades:
It's one concept, Clear Concept.
[00:00:41] Ann Gomez:
Yeah, we only have one. Just one concept.
[00:00:43] Kim Ades:
One concept. And she's a coach, a trainer, and her area of expertise is productivity. In fact, she wrote a book on productivity, she's an expert in that area, and that book is called "Workday Warrior". Ann, welcome!
[00:01:01] Ann Gomez:
Thank you, Kim. I'm so thrilled to be here. Thank you so much for having me on your show.
[00:01:04] Kim Ades:
Show the book again. One more time. Show the book.
[00:01:06] Ann Gomez:
"Workday Warrior", here we go.
[00:01:08] Kim Ades:
"Workday Warrior". Amazing, is already a bestseller, right?
[00:01:11] Ann Gomez:
Yes, yes, yes.
[00:01:13] Kim Ades:
[00:01:14] Ann Gomez:
Oh, thank you.
[00:01:16] Kim Ades:
Because when Ann does something, she does it right. All right. So, give us a little bit of background. Who are you? What do you do? What is Clear Concept? One. And who do you serve? How do you serve them? You know, we are colleagues in a similar industry and we do... Mostly different things, sometimes we overlap a little bit, but mostly different things. So fill everybody in.
[00:01:39] Ann Gomez:
Awesome. Thank you, Kim. Yeah, so I lead a training company called Clear Concept, and we are all about helping people thrive at work. And productivity is what we started training on almost two decades ago because obviously the way we work independently has a big impact on our performance at work, and there's a lot of things that a lot of people do unknowingly that make work harder than it needs to be.
So our real sweet spot is productivity, and over the years we've grown into other loves, like how we collaborate, how we create a high performance. Hybrid teaming is a hot topic these days that we talk a lot about, and that's super fun for me 'cause I'm a big advocate for a great culture where people could show up and do their best work. And we talk about mindset and we talk about wellbeing and all the things really that help us have a great experience at work.
[00:02:28] Kim Ades:
All right. So I have a bunch of questions.
[00:02:31] Ann Gomez:
[00:02:31] Kim Ades:
I wanna start with this. Do you think that some people are just naturally more productive than others? And...
[00:02:37] Ann Gomez:
[00:02:37] Kim Ades:
...is it a reflection of their character? Like, of their... Maybe their breeding, their upbringing?
[00:02:44] Ann Gomez:
Yeah, I think it's nature and nurture.
[00:02:45] Kim Ades:
[00:02:45] Ann Gomez:
I think we're all different, we all bring different strengths to the table, and I think we can all take advantage of productivity skills to make our days run a little smoother.
[00:02:55] Kim Ades:
Okay, so what interferes with productivity typically?
[00:02:59] Ann Gomez:
So, I've thought about this. I've been really thinking a lot about this for the last two decades and, you know, this day and age, there's three big challenges. So the big whammy... Whammies? Is that the word? Whammies? Are 1) trying to do too much at once, and I know that because I have tried to do too much at once for most of my career.
[00:03:20] Kim Ades:
[00:03:21] Ann Gomez:
2) Not having enough structure, like, too much flexibility, "oh, I'll do it later". Not enough kind of clear boundaries around our time. And then 3) too much complication. And I don't know about you, Kim, but do you ever talk to people who overcomplicate things?
[00:03:37] Kim Ades:
Yes. I love simplicity and I also love... I'm very practical. My kids think it's funny because I always choose the most practical route. I hate complication. It's called hating hassle. I hate hassle.
[00:03:58] Ann Gomez:
Yeah, I noticed, I've always admired that about you. And that's something I noticed that of anyone who's really good at getting big things done, managing a lot, is they cut right to the chase, they get rid of the fluff, they make decisions efficiently...
[00:04:11] Kim Ades:
[00:04:12] Ann Gomez:
...don't strive for perfection, like, they do-- they accept help.
[00:04:15] Kim Ades:
[00:04:16] Ann Gomez:
They lean on others, so they do things to focus on getting things done as opposed to perfect.
[00:04:23] Kim Ades:
Yes. I am a fan of progress over perfection. But so you said something earlier that when you have too many things to do, so are you saying that multitasking is a bad idea? Like, some people love multitasking.
[00:04:38] Ann Gomez:
Well, they might love it, but that doesn't mean they're good at it.
[00:04:41] Kim Ades:
Okay. So what is your take on multitasking? I have this argument with my husband sometimes. He always tells me "I'm a much better multitasker than you" and I'm like "I heard that people who multitask actually are lower in their productivity". So you can--
[00:04:55] Ann Gomez:
Yeah, and actually, the people who think they're better at multitasking are actually worse at it, which is ironic.
[00:05:00] Kim Ades:
Interesting. So what is the problem with multitasking?
[00:05:04] Ann Gomez:
After this interview, if you connect me to your husband, I need just five minutes with him. Five minutes.
[00:05:11] Kim Ades:
[00:05:12] Ann Gomez:
Just ask him. Listen, I was a big multitasker back in the day. So many of us were taught that multitasking is the more efficient way to go, but the truth is, and this is our brains have been studied obviously by neuroscientists, how do we process things, we sequentially process, we don't parallel process.
We do not do two things at once. And I'm talking about the things we are consciously thinking about. Yes, we walk and chew gum, right? So if I am folding laundry while watching tv, I can do both of those kind of on autopilot, right? But if I'm watching a show where I'm hanging on every word, then I'm not folding laundry, right? Like, we know that we lean into doing one thing when we have to.
[00:05:52] Kim Ades:
[00:05:52] Ann Gomez:
You might be on a call and you are reading an email and someone says, "well, what do you think about that, Ann?" And you're like, "oh... can you rephrase that question?" Which is really code for "I was reading email". Like, we do not consciously think about two things at the same time.
[00:06:06] Kim Ades:
Right. It's like when I watch Jeopardy with my husband and he is like, glued to Jeopardy 'cause he's amazing at it, and I play a game on my phone, you know? I'm like, then I tune in when maybe I hear something that I might know the answer to, but I'm not a hundred percent. I can't, you're right, I can't do both.
[00:06:25] Ann Gomez:
Yeah. And that's okay when you're watching Jeopardy, but if you're doing your work and trying to make for a very efficient day, one thing at a time. One thing at a time is a big one.
[00:06:38] Kim Ades:
So then, how do you avoid, eliminate, deal with distractions? I mean, I was kind of taking a look at your book, your profile, reading through it, etc., and I do work with my husband and I know I'm giving him such a hard time today, but...
[00:06:56] Ann Gomez:
[00:06:56] Kim Ades:
...he walked in and he had to discuss something very important with me, but I was reading. [Chuckles] Right. Right? So, what do you do when you get interrupted or distracted?
[00:07:06] Ann Gomez:
Well, we're not going to eliminate those interruptions. Those are still gonna come at us, but we can't manage interruptions. So, people coming to speak to us, right? This was a big interruption back when everyone was working in the office five days a week.
[00:07:19] Kim Ades:
[00:07:19] Ann Gomez:
And so what I would suggest in those cases is, you know, you greet someone warmly, like, "Hey, how can I help you?" Right? And it's kind of like you're getting right to the point, right? So you're being friendly, warm, open, and basically you're trying to assess urgency.
If they need an answer before the phone call, they're going on in two minutes, then you're not gonna say, "I'm sorry, I'm trying to focus right now. Let's talk later". No, you're gonna say, "here's the answer, here's the document". We're not trying to be perfect here, obviously.
[00:07:48] Kim Ades:
[00:07:48] Ann Gomez:
But if they say, "well, I wanna pick your brain about that meeting that's happening next Tuesday", then you can say, "yeah, I wanna talk about this also, can we chat at three?" And so you can manage those. The interruption still happen, but you're trying to mitigate the interruption, right? You're not going to avoid people coming to see you.
[00:08:05] Kim Ades:
Yeah. I like the idea of assessing urgency. I like that. That's a good one.
[00:08:11] Ann Gomez:
Totally about assessing urgency. And then also like, there's a couple other factors too. Like when you sit down to read, it's about saying, "okay, what's my goal right now? What am I focused on?" I have to do that every time I go into [chuckles] the internet, Kim, because I get so distracted by the bright shiny objects. And remember, you went in for this piece of information, go get it, and then come out.
[00:08:36] Kim Ades:
Here's a question for you. Like, it happens to me almost every day. I go take a shower and I-- okay, so here it's happening again... But I go take a shower and I think about something. Something like, "oh, I wanna look up the relationship between..." I don't know, let's say, "a hernia and weight gain". Like, I just think of something, right?
[00:08:59] Ann Gomez:
[00:09:00] Kim Ades:
I wanna, you know, so and so, a client of mine mentioned this and I wanna like see-- whatever, I wanna do some research on it, whatever. I come up with something in my head. But the minute I come out of the shower, it's gone. Gone, gone, gone.
[00:09:13] Ann Gomez:
Right. You know there's notepads for the shower you can get?
[00:09:16] Kim Ades:
Oh yeah? So that's what I should do. I should have a notepad in my shower.
[00:09:19] Ann Gomez:
Yeah. You know, similarly, people do this, like when they're sleeping, they wake up or they have trouble falling back to sleep, going to sleep originally, because they're thinking of the relationship between hernias and weight gains or whatever it is they're thinking about. And there's a study that showed that if we write it down, we feel more confident to, because it's captured and so we can let it go now.
[00:09:38] Kim Ades:
You know what that's called, Ann? Journaling.
[00:09:41] Ann Gomez:
Yeah! There you go!
[00:09:43] Kim Ades:
That's what it's called. I'll never miss an opportunity to plug journaling. Okay, so you said something before that I wanna come back to, which is this whole idea of like working from home, does it actually increase our productivity or decrease our productivity? There's a whole wide debate out there.
[00:10:02] Ann Gomez:
Right. And that's situational dependent, right? Like, if you have three young children who are homeschooling...
[00:10:08] Kim Ades:
[00:10:09] Ann Gomez:
...or virtual schooling, then you're probably not going to be as productive at home. It depends. It depends on you, your working style. If your work is really collaborative, if you have a lot going on at home, if you're really tempted to dive into personal projects at home, then being in the office is probably more productive for you.
[00:10:30] Kim Ades:
[00:10:30] Ann Gomez:
And so, office can also be ripe with interruptions. It really depends.
[00:10:34] Kim Ades:
So, I mean, I work with business owners and sometimes they're troubled by this whole work at home status.
[00:10:42] Ann Gomez:
[00:10:42] Kim Ades:
What would you advise them in terms of trying to help make sure everybody's as productive as possible?
[00:10:49] Ann Gomez:
Yeah. For their teams you mean?
[00:10:51] Kim Ades:
[00:10:51] Ann Gomez:
Or for themselves individually? Yeah. I would say lean into hybrid. I am an advocate for hybrid, not an extreme 'everyone in the office' five days a week, or 'everyone at home' five days a week. There is magic in both and we want to offer our teams flexibility. Now, I do suggest that things like community days and guidelines are very effective because we do know that there's magic in coming together.
[00:11:18] Kim Ades:
[00:11:19] Ann Gomez:
Just know that not-- for most roles, not every role, but for most roles, there's a component of it that can be done virtually, and the workforce is more empowered than it's ever been before. I think setting people up for success does not involve having strict mandates to be in the office.
[00:11:37] Kim Ades:
Got it. Okay, so go back. You said the first kind of interrupter of productivity was multitasking. Doing too much at once.
[00:11:49] Ann Gomez:
[00:11:49] Kim Ades:
The second one was too much flexibility.
[00:11:51] Ann Gomez:
Yeah, isn't that one ironic?
[00:11:53] Kim Ades:
What do you mean by that? Because I love flexibility.
[00:11:56] Ann Gomez:
Yeah, flexibility seems like the ultimate. Like, I remember early in my career, an entrepreneur was talking about flexibility, how much flexibility he had, and I thought, "ah, one day". But the truth is that when we don't have structure, then we don't necessarily build our days around what's most important. And what we should do really is pay ourselves first, right?
And so, I think so many people can relate to fitness, right? So this is a personal example. This is the same as true in our work lives. I go to the gym three times a week and I do a lot of walking outside that. And I have those gym time slots in my calendar. I actually have it in my calendar four times a week, and my goal is to hit three of them.
Sometimes with kids and work, obligations, things, I can't hit all four. But today, for example, I'm going to the gym at five o'clock. Now, Kim, if you were to ask me whether I feel like doing the burpees that they'll probably make us do during the gym class today, the answer is a flat out no. But I'm always happy I go, and I'm happy I invest in my wellbeing. It's important. Physical fitness is important for all of us.
[00:13:06] Kim Ades:
[00:13:06] Ann Gomez:
So I put it in my routine. I don't just think, "oh, I'll go when I feel like it", or "I'll go when I have time", 'cause then it's not gonna happen.
[00:13:13] Kim Ades:
[00:13:14] Ann Gomez:
And I think a lot of people can relate to the... get the routine.
[00:13:17] Kim Ades:
[00:13:18] Ann Gomez:
And the same is true for our priorities, for our independent work, right? There's so many things that can gobble up our time. If we don't pay ourselves first and put some structure in our day, "I'm gonna work on this priority during these time blocks consistently, week over week", then we're gonna not have enough time for the things we value most.
[00:13:37] Kim Ades:
So how do you build a routine? Like, use your example of doing the burpees, like, sorry, you can't get me there. There's just no way.
[00:13:45] Ann Gomez:
That's okay, you don't have to do burpees.
[00:13:47] Kim Ades:
Right. No, but I'm just saying like, how do you get someone to engage in a routine, even though they know it's good for them, but they resist it. How do you get someone--
[00:13:58] Ann Gomez:
Yeah, like really, we all should do the things that bring us joy. And for me, a cardio workout and a strength workout does bring me joy. It does invigorate me. But like, for fitness, it could be yoga, it could be playing soccer with your kids, like going for a walk with your dog. There's lots of different options. The same is true in our work life. We really want to lean into the work that brings us joy, and hopefully we've aligned our career with that.
[00:14:19] Kim Ades:
[00:14:20] Ann Gomez:
And I'll talk about your three core priorities, and there's ways to think about that, like what has the biggest impact, what are you most excited about, right? So those three core priorities we wanna block time for first, pay ourselves first.
And the way to build our routine is to think, okay, how much independent work time do I need? When am I at my best for that? When is my energy level highest? For most people it's morning. What's my meeting load? When are my most meetings? And you start to kind of build out the routine based on answers to all of these questions.
[00:14:49] Kim Ades:
Right. Okay. So routine, you're a huge fan of routine.
[00:14:58] Ann Gomez:
[00:14:59] Kim Ades:
So how do you get someone to stick to a routine? It's just a question that I have because like, I think to myself, a as everybody knows, we ask our clients to journal in an online journal every single day.
[00:15:10] Ann Gomez:
[00:15:11] Kim Ades:
Every single day. And part of the pull or the way they do it is that when they journal, we respond.
[00:15:19] Ann Gomez:
[00:15:19] Kim Ades:
So, most of our clients are very happy to engage in this process. Every once in a while we have a resistant client who is like, "well, I've never journaled. I got busy. There were other things". You know? So how do you get them?
[00:15:35] Ann Gomez:
So you've built an accountability already, right? And reinforcement with your responses, so that's huge.
[00:15:40] Kim Ades:
We'll call it reinforcement, not so much accountability.
[00:15:43] Ann Gomez:
Well, the fact that they know someone's reading their journal entries.
[00:15:47] Kim Ades:
[00:15:48] Ann Gomez:
You know, adds that buddy system. Apparently, like we're 95% more likely to hit our goals if we have an accountability buddy. So, the other thing I would suggest for anyone who's struggling to build this habit, this is a habit, the journaling is a habit: Start small. So there's a lot of great research out there that shows that we want our habits to be so small we can't fail. So, you could say to your client, "write one sentence".
[00:16:12] Kim Ades:
[00:16:13] Ann Gomez:
The commitment is so ridiculously small that it feels so manageable. I started flossing regularly, I was always a hit and miss flosser, like right clustered around the dentist appointment. But I started flossing regularly because I committed to flossing one tooth, which I heard that idea and I thought that is ridiculous.
But when I paired the task, that's another key tool, right? When you get your morning coffee, write that one sentence. When I paired the flossing with brushing, which I do consistently, I would look myself in the mirror and say, "Ann, I know you're tight. You can floss one tooth". So I floss one tooth and then keep flossing all of them, right?
[00:16:53] Kim Ades:
[00:16:54] Ann Gomez:
They can write 45 minutes if they want. Just commit to writing one sentence.
[00:16:58] Kim Ades:
Yeah. I tell them that they need to show up every day, even if they don't feel like it, they just go in and say, "hi, I don't wanna journal today. Have a nice day. Goodbye" and that's it [chuckles] that's their journal.
[00:17:07] Ann Gomez:
That's okay. That's awesome.
[00:17:09] Kim Ades:
You gotta show up.
[00:17:11] Ann Gomez:
And then just pairing it with something that's already established, like having their coffee or whatever that is, right?
[00:17:16] Kim Ades:
[00:17:16] Ann Gomez:
That builds the routine.
[00:17:18] Kim Ades:
You talked about an accountability buddy. Let's-- I hate the term accountability for a million reasons, we don't need to debate it, but here's a question for you. Do you think it's a good idea to share your goals? Or is that like setting yourself up for failure?
[00:17:33] Ann Gomez:
I think it's a great idea to share your goals, because then you rally support, you commit to it yourself as well.
[00:17:41] Kim Ades:
Yeah. You think it reinforces the decision to go for the goal.
[00:17:47] Ann Gomez:
Yeah. Yep. And I think it helps you rally support, build those champions around you, put it out there into the universe. What are your thoughts on that?
[00:17:59] Kim Ades:
I don't know, I'm a little mixed about it. I think it's a good idea to tell some people. I don't think it's necessarily... A great idea to tell the whole world.
[00:18:09] Ann Gomez:
I agree with you. Be selective here. Absolutely.
[00:18:12] Kim Ades:
[00:18:13] Ann Gomez:
[00:18:14] Kim Ades:
It's tricky because like, you might have a goal, like I might have a goal, right? "Oh, I wanna lose 20 pounds by my birthday". Do you know how many years I've had that goal? Same goal every year, year after year. And I do all the things that I'm supposed to do, eliminate carbs, sugar, no alcohol, no dairy, whatever. All the nos, get rid of everything.
And still, for whatever reason, I don't make the kind of progress I'm looking to reach. So now my birthday comes and now, you know, I just feel bad. I feel bad 'cause I didn't reach my goal and now I'm a little embarrassed. You know, I'm a little ashamed of myself. So what do you think? What do you think about that?
[00:18:54] Ann Gomez:
I think you are beautiful and that--
[00:18:57] Kim Ades:
I wasn't looking for a compliment, but I'm saying like, should we share our goals? That's the question.
[00:19:05] Ann Gomez:
I still think, yeah, shoot for the moon and land on the stars, right? Shoot for the stars, land on the moon. what's the expression? Like, I think a lot of people can relate to aiming high and maybe still having results that are worth being proud of, but not hitting the results we intended, right? I think everything... I think that sometimes is a blessing when we don't hit our goal because another door opens up and we have another incredible opportunity that we're interested in.
I've had many goals I haven't hit. I still think there's value in sharing them selectively. I agree. Not everyone, you don't wanna share them with everyone. But I'd be very comfortable sharing a goal with you because I think you would give me good ideas and insights. And maybe you'd [...] "oh, Ann, have you talked to this person?" And you'd encourage me.
[00:19:50] Kim Ades:
[00:19:50] Ann Gomez:
So I think the right person is a good person to share.
[00:19:53] Kim Ades:
I agree. I agree. The right person. And I also think that's where a good coach comes in, right?
[00:19:57] Ann Gomez:
[00:19:58] Kim Ades:
Where you can work with your coach when you're struggling, when you're not meeting your timeframes, etc. An amazing coach could really help address some of the things that are getting in the way, so that's where coaching comes in. All right, another question. You talked about deadlines. Good or bad?
[00:20:21] Ann Gomez:
So good. So, so good. Now, we don't wanna overcommit ourselves, but deadlines really do drive productivity. So, productivity is this kind of trickle down effect. You start with what's most important, and I talk about three goals, three big goals.
We can't do 7 or 12 priorities at the same time. We can't even do four. I've tried Kim, I've tried. It's three, three big goals. And then having deadlines related to all the activities and tasks associated with those three big goals.
But also it's so important for us to track all of those in one place so we can gauge our capacity because we don't wanna overcommit ourselves. If I have three things due on Monday and you ask me to do something for you on Monday, I don't wanna just rely on memory or these haphazard list.
I wanna have this really solid priority management system. I call it your map to consult and say, "oh Kim, I'd love to do that, work on that with you. Can I have my piece to you by next Friday? Because the beginning of the week is tight for me".
[00:21:24] Kim Ades:
[00:21:24] Ann Gomez:
And so it's the negotiation, right? I wanna make sure my deadlines are realistic and I can always-- well, I can't always, but many deadlines can be renegotiated.
[00:21:34] Kim Ades:
[00:21:35] Ann Gomez:
But the deadline helps me commit to doing it.
[00:21:38] Kim Ades:
Do you help individuals, organizations create their maps?
[00:21:43] Ann Gomez:
Yes, for sure. Absolutely. It is the first thing we do when we're working with someone.
[00:21:49] Kim Ades:
Okay. So I'm just looking at the clock and I'm gonna ask you this. What's your number one most important piece of advice for people who want to improve dramatically their productivity? What's the number one thing they need to think about or do?
[00:22:06] Ann Gomez:
Concentrate your focus. Concentrate your focus, know what the big goals are, concentrate on those, and it's three. Three core priorities.
[00:22:16] Kim Ades:
Three core. So get rid of everything else.
[00:22:19] Ann Gomez:
Well, there are some things we're gonna park, and I call those 'future priorities', and some things have to get done. Like, I talk about submitting expenses, right? Like, that's not a core priority, right? But that has to get done. Booking the dentist appointment doesn't feel like a core priority, but it has to get done.
[00:22:36] Kim Ades:
[00:22:37] Ann Gomez:
I call these supporting tasks and those fit in around the periphery. Those don't form the core of our day, those fit in around the periphery.
[00:22:45] Kim Ades:
Yeah. For me, those are things I delegate.
[00:22:49] Ann Gomez:
[00:22:50] Kim Ades:
Because I can't, I'm not good at those things, those things bong me down, right?
[00:22:54] Ann Gomez:
[00:22:55] Kim Ades:
They weigh me down, they are not my area of greatest expertise, so I, to the best of my ability, hand over all administratively related tasks to anybody I can hand them to.
[00:23:08] Ann Gomez:
See, this is another example of you performing at elite levels. I talk about the simplified filter where, like, uber productive people, they always look for opportunities to scale back, streamline and seek help, and everything you just said there showed that you really make the most of simplifying.
[00:23:27] Kim Ades:
Yeah, I often think about scaling back in terms of what are the things that we are working on that aren't yielding the results we're looking for. Let's look at them, if we can't figure out how to improve them, let's eliminate them, because I don't wanna spend time doing things that don't yield results.
[00:23:46] Ann Gomez:
[00:23:46] Kim Ades:
Right? Because what happens then, it drains you 'cause you're spending all this time, all this energy trying to make it work, make it work, make it work. It's like a bad marriage, right?
[00:23:55] Ann Gomez:
[00:23:56] Kim Ades:
Sometimes you gotta call it quits!
[00:23:58] Ann Gomez:
Yeah, yeah. Spoken like a true executive, Kim.
[00:24:00] Kim Ades:
[00:24:01] Ann Gomez:
Really focused on highest impact.
[00:24:04] Kim Ades:
Highest impact. All right, how do people find you? How do people buy your book?
[00:24:09] Ann Gomez:
So, you can search for me on social and the book is available wherever books are sold. And you can find me more information on my website, clearconceptinc.ca.
[00:24:21] Kim Ades:
Okay. And it's Ann Gomez. Ann with no E. A N N.
[00:24:25] Ann Gomez:
No E. Yes, A N N.
[00:24:26] Kim Ades:
A n n Gomez, g o m e z, or Z for you Americans out there.
[00:24:31] Ann Gomez:
Yeah. There you go. [Chuckles]
[00:24:32] Kim Ades:
All right. Thank you so much for joining me today, for sharing your wisdom, your insights, your knowledge, your expertise. Guys, go buy her book, go learn about productivity. She is the best, there is no question. And I'd love to hear what you think about this episode. We'll catch you next time. Have a great week, everyone!